OldTimeFAQ

rec.music.country.old-time--Frequently Asked Questions

[Last Revised: October 30, 2010--Last Posted: October 30, 2010]

Table of Contents

What is this Newsgroup about?
What is old-time music?
Where can I find discussion of older country music that isn't old-time?
Where can I find discussion about bluegrass?
What are contra dancing and contra tunes?
Publications
Mail Order Sources
Labels
Periodicals
Festival Schedules
Links

1. WHAT IS THIS NEWSGROUP ABOUT?
WHAT IS OLD-TIME MUSIC?
First, here's the charter for rec.music.country.old-time, as approved
in a vote ending on January 6, 1995. (The newsgroup was created on
 January 17, 1995.) The one-line newsgroup description, by the way, is
Southern fiddle/banjo music and beyond.

CHARTER
rec.music.country.old-time is intended to be an unmoderated discussion
newsgroup to discuss music that originates in the southern Appalachian
region of Virginia, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee but which
also includes related music, for example, from
Missouri, Quebec, or New England (contra). Topics of discussion may
 include but are not limited to:
Fiddle Tunes
Banjo Tunes
Performers
Lyrics (if not copyrighted)
Recordings
Festivals, Contests, Concerts
Books and Periodicals
Instruments
Instrument Techniques
[End Charter]

WHAT IS OLD-TIME MUSIC?

Old-time music is traditional music that developed in rural and often
isolated areas of the Appalachian and other regions before radio,
cars, and other modern inventions. The two main strains of the music
come from the banjo, brought with many of its common playing styles
from Africa by Africans, and the fiddle, which came from western
Europe, particularly Germany, Scotland and Ireland. The fiddle and banjo
were played separately and together, particularly for square dancing,
in the nineteenth century. Songs and ballads, many imported from
the British Isles and many written on these shores, are also an
important part of old-time music. [If there's an electric guitar
or drums, it's probably not old-time music, though you can
probably find a few exceptions.]

The early days of old-time music are unfortunately not well-documented,
and there are various theories of how it started and spread.
This first one I got from Bob Flesher. White minstrels popularized the banjo
in urban centers before the Civil War. The banjo went back to the mountains with veterans
from that war. When people began to play banjos and fiddles together,
fiddle playing changed. (See the notes, for example,
to the Emmett Lundy LP.) After reading Conway's African
Banjo Echoes in Appalachia (see book list below), I would
 lean toward another theory. Conway gives persuasive evidence
that black banjo players taught both minstrels and white
 mountain musicians to play the banjo directly. Just one of
her arguments is that there are lots of common tunings between
earlier black banjoists and mountain banjoists that weren't
used by minstrels. There is also undoubtedly Native American influence
on old-time music, but that lacks almost any documentation.

The coming together of the banjo and the fiddle in ensemble
is not well-documented, but Conway does not find evidence
for it happening prior to the minstrels. In the mountains,
it dated roughly from the civil war period until
World War I, when the guitar arrived.
It is likely that slaves played fiddle and banjo together first.
There is an 18th century reference in Sinful Tunes and 
Spirituals to two slaves playing fiddle and banjo in 1774,
p. 115.

The guitar and mandolin entered the music in the late 19th
century.  Sometimes accordions, concertinas, pianos, and flutes
or pennywhistles are found in contemporary old-time ensembles.
Bones, too. And let's not forget the dulcimer and hammered
dulcimer. And the harmonica and autoharp. Old-time music has
usually been made on whatever instrument was at hand, so many
more instruments could be mentioned.

\>Fiddle music in other parts of the United States and Canada also
has an old-time tradition that is less influenced by or developed
independent from the southern music, although radios and recordings
have made it unlikely that any regional tradition would remain
completely free from other influences. And within any tradition,
there are those who emphasize passing on the tradition relatively
unchanged and those who experiment with the tradition at the edges,
extending it into new areas. Some individuals may even do both.
In the 1920s record companies recorded many old-time musicians, such
as Eck Robertson, Fiddlin' John Carson, Gid Tanner and the Skilletlickers,
Charlie Poole and Riley Puckett, Clarence Ashley, and others.
It was these record companies that coined the term old-time music,
which they also called hillbilly music. Uncle Dave Macon, a
flamboyant banjo player, was one of the first musicians
on the Grand Ole Opry when it started in the twenties. Uncle Jimmy
Thompson, the Fruit Jar Drinkers, the Gully Jumpers, DeFord
B ailey, and Dr. Humphrey Bate were some other early Grand Ole Opry
stars. Grayson and Whitter were another important duo in those early years.
Some other important source musicians include Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter
Family, Al Hopkins and his Buckle Busters (also Al Hopkins and the Hillbillies),
Da Costa Woltz's Southern Broadcasters, the Stripling Brothers, Dock Boggs, Roscoe
Holcomb, Fiddling Arthur Smith, Ed Haley, Clark Kessinger, Sam and Kirk
McGee, Wade Ward, Fiddlin' Sid Harkreader, and many more. Few recordings
were made of the many active African-American old-time string bands in
this period, but John Lusk, Albert York, and Murph Gribble played in one band
of which we have recordings. There are a few commercial recordings,
such as those of Jim Booker with Taylor's Kentucky Boys
and Andrew Baxter with the Georgia Yellow Hammers, in
which African-American and European-American  played together.
An important role was played by the Library of
Congress, which preserved many musicians not deemed commercial by
the record companies. Some of the fine fiddlers recorded include
Emmett Lundy from Galax, Virginia and Edden (or Edn) Hammons of
West Virginia (who was recorded by a professor at West Virginia
University).

Document Records in Austria (now the UK) has reissued old-time music
CDs based on recordings that were originally on 78s. So far
they have released collections of Herschel Brown, John Dilleshaw
(7-foot Dilly), Frank Hutchison, Earl Johnson, the Stripling
 Brothers, the Kessinger Brothers, and Mississippi String Bands.
[Many more have since been issued, but I won't attempt to keep
this list of Document up-to-date.] Document and its related labels have also reissued recordings
of African-American bands such as the Memphis Jug Band and
 Gus Cannon and his Jug Stompers.

Old-time music was much of the popular country music of the 1920s
and 1930s. In the 1940s Bill Monroe, who had solid old-time roots from
his mother and his Uncle Pen Vandiver, both old-time fiddlers, began to
shape what became \bluegrass. Monroe cited his uncle and
 African-American blues guitarist named Arnold Schulz as his principal
influences.

But although old-time music began to disappear from the larger radio
shows, it still had solid roots in the southern Appalachian region and
in other areas of the country, from the Midwest, especially Missouri,
Illinois, and Indiana, to Texas, and even California. As part of the
folk revival of the 1950s and 1960s, old-time music developed a
following in many regions of the country. Younger musicians began
visiting and recording traditional old-time musicians and learning to
play their music. Fiddler Tommy Jarrell, who lived close to Mt. Airy,
North Carolina, and his fellow musician, Fred Cockerham, attracted many
young people who came to learn from them and their music. Banjo
player George Pegram inspired some young college students to start
what became Rounder Records.

Bands such as the New Lost City Ramblers and later the Highwoods
Stringband toured widely. Many festivals and contests have drawn
musicians from far away to hear old-time music. A festival in Union
Grove, North Carolina, for example, was held for the 71st year in 1995.
(The festival has changed in name, location, and character but is
run by the same family that organized the original festivals.)
Some other influential bands from that period were the Hollow Rock
String Band, Fuzzy Mountain String Band, the Gypsy Gyppo String Band,
and the Possum Trot String Band.

Today there are very lively and active communities of old-time
musicians and enthusiasts all over the country and around the world.
(There's a monthly old-time jam in London, and there are old-time bands
in Japan and Australia.) A few of the best-known elder statesmen and
stateswomen of contemporary old-time music include Melvin Wine*,
Woody Simmons*, and \(the late) Wilson Douglas of West Virginia, Etta Baker, Joe Thompson, and Benton
Flippen of North Carolina, Bob Douglas*, Ralph Blizard*, Will Keys*, and Charlie Acuff
from Tennessee, the late Matokie Slaughter from Virginia, and Clyde Davenport from
Kentucky (recently moved to Tennessee). J. P. Fraley belongs
here, too, along with Mel Durham* and Marvin Gaster and others.
Musicians with an asterisk have passed since I originally wrote this paragraph.

A few of the better-known younger old-time musicians and bands
includeBruce Greene, Jody Stecher and Kate Brislin, Bruce Molsky, Dwight
 Diller, David Holt, Ginny Hawker and Kay Justice, Hazel Dickens, Dirk
Powell, John Herrmann, Tom Sauber, Bob Flesher, Clarke Buehling, the
Volo Bogtrotters, the Boiled Buzzards, the Heartbeats Rhythm Quartet,
the Horseflies, Brad Leftwich and Linda Higginbotham, the Critton
Hollow String Band, the Red Mule String Band, the Indian Creek Delta
Boys, Alice Gerrard, James Bryan, Double Decker String Band,
the Ill-Mo Boys, and the Hillbillies from Mars. Bob Carlin always
feels left out, and since I left him out above, I'll add him back
here. And at least for their name, I should add the Red Mountain
White Trash (with their CD, Fire in the Dumpster Mountain, now just Red
Mountain). Rafe Stefanini and Bob Herring belong in the above list.

Fiddle music in some northern parts of the United States and in
Canada may derive more directly from European sources (Scottish,
English, Irish, German, French) but is definitely a related form of
music. Canadian and American Indian  and Metis fiddlers in the
prairies and the upper Midwest, for example, picked up the fiddle
from early French travelers and have developed their own unique
style, which also is influenced by Scottish fiddling.

There are too many forms of old-time music to come up with a simple
description (from solo ballads to full bands, for example). A good
place to start is the Rounder CD 0331 "Old-Time Music on the Air,
volume one," which came out in 1994. A second volume was released
in 1996. Rounder also released a CD called "Young Fogies" with
a similar broad representation, and a second is now out.

2. WHERE CAN I FIND DISCUSSION OF OLDER 
COUNTRY MUSIC THAT ISN'T OLD-TIME?

Try alt.music.country.classic or rec.music.country.western. Please note that "old-time"
doesn't mean "old" or "classic." It refers more to the
style of the music than its age, though much of the
mainstream country music of the 1920s and 1930s was
derived directly from old-time.

3. WHERE CAN I FIND DISCUSSION ABOUT BLUEGRASS?

Since bluegrass is at least partially an offshoot of old-time music,
some discussion fits into rec.music.country.old-time.
There are various bluegrass lists. The oldest one is bgrass-l.
If you want to post to it, you must subscribe to the bgrass-l list. To
do that, send Email to  listserv@lsv.uky.edu with no subject and the
message: SUB BGRASS-L Your_Name. If you have problems subscribing, talk
to the list owner, Frank Godbey, :fgodbey@pop.uky.edu.
 Old-time music is also part of the charter for the bgrass-l list.
A bluegrass newsgroup, alt.music.bluegrass, also
exists.

4. WHAT ARE CONTRA DANCING AND CONTRA TUNES?

Contra dancing probably takes its name from English country dancing
which spread to France where country turned into contra. In contra
 dances, dancers form two lines and couples generally progress down a
 line and back. Unlike squares, dancers in a contra dance generally are
 doing something all the time, and contra dancing, which was originally
more popular in New England, has spread throughout the country. New
England tunes are sometimes called contra tunes, but since southern
ttunes are also played at contra dances, that distinction has become
less clear. Tunes played for contra dances are almost always
square, i.e., 16 beats per part (two parts each played twice for
a total of 64 beats or 32 bars). Square dances are sometimes
written for crooked tunes, which have other than 16 beats per part,
and square dance tunes may have three parts or other deviations
from the contra restrictions.

5. PUBLICATIONS, MAIL ORDER SOURCES, WEB SITES, ETC.

Books on Old-Time Music
(sorted roughly by title and to be exanded soon)

African Banjo Echoes in Appalachia: A Study of Folk Traditions,
Cecelia Conway, Univ. of Tennessee Press, 1995,
ISBN 0-87049-893-2.
American Folk Songs for Christmas, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Oak Publications OK 64957,
reviewed by Paul Brown, OTH Winter 1992--93,
Music Sales Corp., 225 Park Avenue South, New York, NY 10003.
169 Brand New Old Time Fiddle Tunes, Volume 3--Jigs, Reels,
Polkas, Waltzes, Marches, Two-Steps, Hornpipes, Schottisches,
Bluegrass Tunes by American and Canadian Composers,
Edited by Vivian Williams, 1990, Voyager Publications,
424 - 35th Ave., Seattle, WA 98122, reviewed by Art
Rosenbaum in OTH, Summer 1992.
Communities in Motion, ed. by Susan Spalding, Greenwood
Press, 1995 (traditional dance).
Contra Dancing in the Northwest,
Penn Fix, 1991, W. 703 Shoshone Pl., Spokane, WA 99203
reviewed by Phil Jamison, OTH, Summer, 1992.
Frank B. Converse's Banjo Instructor, Without a Master:
Containing a Choice Collection of Banjo Solos, Jigs, Songs, 
Reels, Walk Arounds, Etc. Progressively Arranged, and 
Plainly Explained, Enabling the Learner to Become a 
Proficient Banjoist without the Aid of a Teacher,
Frank B. Converse, 1865, reprinted in 1990 by
Cleff'd Ear Productions, P. O. Box 13075, Lansing, MI 48901.
Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife: Instrumental Folk Tunes in 
Pennsylvania, edited by Samuel P. Bayard, Pennsylvania State
University Press, 1982.
DeFord Bailey: A Black Star in Early Country Music,
David C. Morton, with Charles K. Wolfe, 1991
University of Tennessee Press, Knoxville, TN 37996-0325,
reviewed by Jack Bernhardt, OTH, Fall 1992.
The Devil's Box: Masters of Southern Fiddling,
Charles Wolfe, Country Music Foundation Press and Vanderbilt
University Press, 1997, ISBN 0-8265-1283-6.
Farmhouse Fiddlers: music and dance traditions in the rural 
midwest, Philip Nevin Martin, 1994 ISBN 1883953065,
reviewed by Jim Nelson, OTH Summer 1995.
Finding Her Voice--The Saga of Women in Country Music,
Mary A. Bufwack and Robert K. Oermann, Crown Publishers,
Inc., 1993, reviewed by Toni Williams, OTH, Summer 1994.
The Folk Banjo: A Documentary History</, Dena J. Epstein,
Los Angeles: John Edwards Memorial Foundation at the Folklore
and Mythology Center, University of California, 1975.
Hill Country Tunes: Instrumental Folk Music of Southwestern
Pennsylvania, edited by Samuel P. Bayard, American Folklore
Society, 1944.
Last Cavalier: The Life and Times of John A. Lomax,
Nolan Porterfield, University of Illinois Press, 1996 ISBN
0-252-02216-5.
The Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory, 2 volumes,
R. P. Christeson, University of Missouri Press, 1973-1984.
 (A two-cassette collection of these recordings is available
 from MSFOTFA, see below.)
Old-Time Fiddling Across America, book and tape by
David Reiner and Peter Anick, Mel Bay Publications.
Play of a Fiddle, Gerry Milnes, University
 of Kentucky Press, 1999 ISBN 0813120802.
Rambling Blues: The Life & Songs of Charlie Poole,
Kinney Rorrer, Danville, VA: Kinney Rorrer, 913 Vicar Road ,
Danville, VA 24540, 1982.
Sinful Tunes and Spirituals: Black Folk Music to the Civil 
War, Dena Epstein, University of Illinois Press, 1977.
Singing Family of the Cumberlands, Jean Ritchie, Oxford
University Press, 1955.
Singing the Glory Down: Amateur Gospel Music in
 South Central Kentucky, 1900--1990,
William Lynwood Montell, 1991, University Press
of Kentucky, reviewed by Ray Bowman, OTH,
Winter 1992-93.
The Stonemans--An Appalachian Family and the Music That 
Shaped Their Lives, Ivan Tribe, University of Illinois Press, 1993
That Half-Barbaric Twang: The Banjo in American Popular 
Culture, Karen Linn, University of Illinois Press, Urbana and
Chicago, 1991, ISBN 0-252-01780-3, reviewed by Art Rosenbaum, OTH
reviewed by Dale Morris, OTH Summer 1994.
Traveling the High Way Home: Ralph Stanley and the World of 
Traditional Bluegrass Music, John Wright, Urbana: University of
Illinois Press, 1993.
Truth is Stranger than Publicity, Alton Delmore, edited by Charles K. Wolfe,
Country Music Foundation Press, 1977.
Way Up North in Dixie: A Black Family's Claim to the Southern
Anthem, Howard Sacks and Judith Rose Sacks, Smithsonian
Institution Press, 1993.
With Fiddle and Well-Rosined Bow: Old-Time Fiddling in 
Alabama, Joyce H. Cauthen, University of Alabama Press, 1989. [now
out-of-print but still found in bookstores]

Periodicals

Old-Time Herald, http://www.oldtimeherald.org.
Banjo Newsletter, Box 364, Greensboro, MD 21639 http://www.banjonews.com/
Fiddler Magazine, http://www.fiddle.com/

Labels issuing old-time music 

(recordings and videos)
Arhoolie, http://www.arhoolie.com/
Bear Family Records, http://www.bear-family.de
Copper Creek Records, http://www.coppercreekrecords.com/
County Records, http://www.countysales.com/
Document Records,  http://www.document-records.com
Field Recorders Collective, http://www.fieldrecorder.com/
Heritage Records, http://www.heritageshoppe.net/pages/hrecords.html
Homespun, http://www.homespuntapes.com/
June Appal Recordings/Appalshop, http://appalshop.org/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=45
Native Ground Music, http://www.nativeground.com/
Old Hat Records, http://www.oldhatrecords.com/
Old Homestead Records, http://home.comcast.net/~oldhomestead/
Rounder Records, http://www.rounder.com/
Shanachie/Yazoo, http://www.yazoorecords.com/
Smithsonian/Folkways, http://www.folkways.si.edu/
Vestapol, http://www.guitarvideos.com/
Voyager Records, http://www.voyagerrecords.com



Festivals

(see the Spring issue of the Old-Time Herald for a longer list)
Breaking Up Winter, first weekend March, Cedars of Lebanon, TN, http://www.nashvilleoldtime.org/BUW/index.shtml
Merlefest, late April, Wilksboro, NC, http://www.merlefest.org/
Vandalia Gathering, May, Charleston, WV http://www.wvculture.org/vandalia/
Fiddler's Grove, Union Grove, NC   Memorial Day weekend, http://www.fiddlersgrove.com/
International Country Music Conference, May, http://www.internationalcountrymusic.org/
Seedtime on the Cumberland, June, Whitesburg, KY http://appalshop.org/seedtime/
Mt. Airy Bluegrass & Oldtime Fiddlers Convention, Mt. Airy, NC June, http://www.mtairyfiddlersconvention.com/
Blue Ridge Old-Time Music Week
Mars Hill, NC, June, http://www.mhc.edu/oldtimemusic
National Oldtime Fiddlers Contest, Weiser, ID June,
http://www.fiddlecontest.com
Summer Solstice Folk Music, Dance & Storytelling Festival, CA
June, http://www.ctmsfolkmusic.org/
Indiana Fiddlers Gathering, June, Battle Ground, IN, http://www.dcwi.com/fiddlers/Welcome.html
Maury River Fiddler's Convention, Glen Maury Park in Buena
Vista, VA, June, http://www.glenmaurypark.com/mrfc/
West Virginia State Folk Festival, Glenville, WV  June,
Festival of American Fiddle Tunes,  July, http://www.centrum.org/fiddle/
Uncle Dave Macon Days, July, Murfreesboro, TN, http://www.uncledavemacondays.com/
Kentucky State Championship Old-Time Fiddlers Contest,
July, Leitchfield, KY, http://www.kentuckyfiddler.com/
Old-Time Music and Dance Week, July, The Swannanoa
Gathering, NC , http://www.swangathering.com/Catalog/OT/sgotsched.html
Old Fiddler's Convention, Galax, VA August, http://www.oldfiddlersconvention.com/
Appalachian String Band Festival, Clifftop, WV  August,
http://www.wvculture.org/stringband/
Minnesota Bluegrass & Old-Time Music Festival, August,
Zimmerman, MN, http://www.minnesotabluegrass.org/
American Dance & Music Week, August, Pinewoods Camp, MA,
Ashokan Southern Week, Olivebridge, NY, August, http://www.ashokan.org/ashokan/campsw.shtml
Augusta Heritage Center Old-Time Week, Elkins, WV August, http://www.augustaheritage.com
Lake Genero, NY, September, http://www.sacrasoft.com/Genero/About.html
J.P. Fraley's Mountain Music Gathering, September, Olive Hill, KY, http://www.fraleyfestival.com/
Wheatland Traditional Music Festival, September,
Remus, MI, http://www.wheatlandmusic.org/home.asp
Fiddletown Fiddler's Jam, September, Fiddletown, CA 95629, http://www.fiddletownca.org/FCC-Jam.htm
Tennessee Valley Old Time Fiddler's Convention, Athens, GA, October,  http://www.athens.edu/fiddlers/
Goleta Old-Time Fiddler's Convention, October,
http://www.fiddlersconvention.org/dpage.php?page_id=1
Tennessee Fall Homecoming, October, Norris, TN, http://www.museumofappalachia.org/Tennessee_Fall_Homecoming.htm
Florida State Fiddlers Convention, October, Otter Springs, http://www.nettally.com/fiddler/annualconvention.htm

Related Links

World Wide Web sites (which include some of the above information)

http://www.brandywinefriends.org Brandywine Friends of Old Time Music
http://www.oldtimemusic.com David Lynch's Old-Time Music Home Page
http://www.stg.brown.edu/projects/davenport/CLYDE_DAVENPORT.html
Clyde Davenport Home Page
http://lcweb.loc.gov/folklife/afc.html American Folklife Center
http://www.cgrg.ohio-state.edu/folkbook/resources/periodical.html Periodical Index
http://www.lotusdickeymusic.org/  Lotus Dickey Page
http://www.captainfiddle.com/ Ryan Thomson Home Page (books on traditional music)
http://www.minnesotaoldtime.org/">Minnesota Bluegrass and Old Time Music Association
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/ Fiddler's Companion
http://www.zeppmusic.com/banjo/ Banjo-L Homepage
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/index.htm Musical TraditionsMagazine
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/reed/ Henry Reed Collection
http://www.dwightdiller.com Dwight Diller's Page
http://www.mudcat.org/threads.cfm Digital Tradition
http://www.donpedi.com/ Don Pedi Page
http://sites.google.com/site/redmountainstringband/ Red Mountain String Band
http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/sfc1/ Southern Folklife Collection
http://www.DrHorsehair.com Bob Flesher's Page


For correcting errors, suggestions for additions, and all comments,
send an Email to steve.goldfield@gmail.com